This is a pretty typical DES introductory interview (which DES calls the 'Day 0 interview').

The instructions are not scripted. Here is a rough outline of topics covered:

• [0:00]: Basic ground rules
• [1:27]: Basic DES procedure, including confidentiality
• [5:35]: Kerry--what am I supposed to do?
• [8:37]: Beeper operation
• [24:59]: The one legitimate relationship
• [26:47]: Probably will be difficult on the first day
• [29:20]: More ground rules

DES is always a mixture of forward-looking iterative training (helping Kerry become more adept at describing the experience that was ongoing at future beeped moments) and backward-looking description (apprehending and describing what Kerry experienced yesterday when the beep sounded). On the first sampling day, the iterative task is far more important than the descriptive task.
     The main tasks in the first-day interview is to help all concerned 'cleave' to the moment and 'cleave' to experience--that is, to focus on only the experience that was ongoing at the moment of the beep. Nearly all DES participants have to acquire those skills.
     The interview transcript contains a series of conversations about what are good or bad DES interview questions.

Kerry's samples:

• Sample 1.1 [0:06]: [Kerry had a bloody nose and was leaning over the sink taking care of it while talking to her roommate about why it could have happened.] She was running through different reasons like: Am I dehydrated? Stressed about meeting new people? Running too much? [She thinks the question at the time of the beep was about being dehydrated from running too much, but this wasn't entirely clear. It's also unclear how much she physically feels the bloody nose or experiences her roommate talking at this exact moment. Russ thinks that we have not established what we mean by at the moment of the beep and by experience, so there is reason to discount everything experiential at this sample.]
• Sample 1.2 [18:02]: [Kerry was daydreaming about an upcoming Kayak trip with her sister] She sees—with color, motion, and sound, much like being there—a curved bank of the Snake River with a bridge on the left side. The point of view is from mid-river. The river is in the foreground. Kerry and her sister are on the bank. They're wearing dry suits and helmets. They each are holding a kayak, propped up, and an oar. Kerry is looking straight at the camera. Her sister looks at her, laughs, and looks at the camera. Kerry hears the water, the trees moving, and her sister's laugh (JBK wonders if these were all present at once in this moment of the beep).
       She's also thinking about a potential future Instagram caption, innerly saying "all the gear and absolutely no idea" in her voice with her normal pace and tone.
• Sample 1.3 [33:32]: [Kerry is re-reading an email about graphic design changes to a logo on a website. The text is "maybe a [diamond shape] in black instead," but this was confusing and made her re-read.] At this moment she's reading and innerly speaking "maybe a diamond in black instead." (This is probably more like speaking than hearing. It was Kerry's voice, clear, and with normal speed and tone.) [There may have also been some reaction/feeling part of this of confusion about the diamond and hoping that the client didn't really want a red diamond.]
• Sample 1.4 [54:04]: [Kerry was facing her sink, eating a banana, thinking about her finances]. She was innerly speaking "900 plus 967 is roughly 1800, so by the time I move here in August I'll will actually be saving 300 dollars a month." The beep came mid-sentence right after "August." (This was more innerly spoken than heard. It was Kerry's voice, with normal qualities, but somewhat slower than usual speech for the math part ("900 plus 967 is roughly 1800") and somewhat faster than usual for the remainder of the sentence.)

In general—sampling day 2: All DES interviews are some combination of iterative training (so that future sampling days can be more skillful) and description of experience. The aim of the second sampling interview is a combination of experience description and iterative training.

Kerry's samples:

• Sample 2.1 1:52]: [Kerry was hiking with her housemate, telling a story about when she hiked with her dad, he would walk ahead, holding a Starburst in front of her.] She's speaking aloud: "I wouldn't even eat them because I was too slow."
       She is innerly seeing her dad hiking in front of her, with his harm outstretched behind, holding a pink Starburst. (It's detailed, from her point of view, and in motion. He's wearing the actual hiking gear he wore. There are trees moving in the wind behind.) (These next details are less certain—RTH would say that there are good reasons to discount all the remaining writing as being likely presuppositional. Kerry is also seeing her actual surroundings as she's hiking. Her scene of her dad appears smaller, overlayed over these surroundings. It appears over the hiking trail, the actual trail integrating with the trail in her mental scene, keeping the same perspective.) ]:
• Sample 2.2 [23:43]: [Kerry was organizing social event blocks on her Google calendar. She had considered moving a block for an outing to a live music venue Jamestown Mercantile from Thursday to Wednesday. She'd remembered that they were only open Thursday, Friday, Saturday.]
       She was innerly speaking "They're only open from Thursday" (in her normal speaking tone, pace, and volume).
       She was also visually focused on the social block on her calendar [which happens to be (like all her social blocks) yellow, but she's not sensorily focused on the yellowness.
• Sample 2.3 [43:08]: [Kerry was talking to her friend Evan in a café. He was telling her that his company wanted him to make a presentation deck to accompany a job posting on LinkedIn.] Kerry is saying aloud "that's so nice."
       She also innerly sees a slide [as if from software like PowerPoint]. She sees the edges of the slide clearly; it has moody dark colors (black with hints of royal blue and red) and a fine line across it near the bottom]. It has white bold text that is indistinct or blurry (and unreadable). (It's visually off to the side of her vision, next to Evan; RTH is skeptical of this detail.)
       She's perhaps [RTH thinks it is ambiguous how much of the upcoming is context and how much is experience] looking at Evan and specifically at his smile. She's trying to figure out if he's happy about this or not. This figuring out isn't separate from the visual experience.

In general—sampling day 3: All DES interviews are some combination of iterative training (so that future sampling days can be more skillful) and description of experience. The aim of the third sampling interview is a combination of experience description and iterative training.

Kerry's samples:

• Sample 3.1 [0:33]: [Kerry was jogging in the woods, listening to her friend Drew tell a story about people they both knew. It involved Chef Sam talking to three women, Ally, Tammy, and Katie. Katie was somewhat mad at Sam.] Kerry innerly saw Sam behind a bar and the other three women seated on the other side. Kerry's perspective was as if seated next to Ally. Sam, Ally, and Tammy were seen clearly; Katie was blurry or less detailed.
       [It's unclear if Kerry was also hearing Drew's voice and experiencing the woods around her.]
• Sample 3.2 [20:16]: [Kerry was still running on the trail with Drew. They were talking about a thrift shopping event that Kerry had previously seen an Instagram ad about.] In trying to remember when and where the event was, Kerry innerly saw, blurrily or unarticulatedly, the Instagram ad, its light cream and red background and curved brown Western-style text [like on a Wanted poster or saloon] at the top and (smaller) at the bottom. (Nothing was readable. However, the edges of the ad were most likely distinct. We didn't specifically ask about this but Kerry gave exact pixel dimensions, "1080 by 1920.")
       [It was unclear if running on the trail was part of Kerry's experience.]
• Sample 3.3 [36:18]: Kerry was running along a trail by a lake.] She was innerly hearing a repeated line from the chorus of a song: "There's no holding back" (from "In Undertow" by Alvvays). (The hearing is experienced as being exactly as if hearing it in the real world [but the exactness is mistaken—the real lyric is "There's no turning back"].)
       [She said she was 80% seeing the trail and a lake to the side, with rocks under the clear water, and 20% innerly hearing the song. RTH found reason to be highly skeptical of this account: he thinks Kerry has not yet distinguished between facts of the universe and directly apprehended experience. He spent probably half the interview hour working (iteratively) on that distinction.]
• Sample 3.4 [48:44]: [Kerry was still running on the trail.] She was telling Drew "I'm late to walk this dog;" [but it is unclear whether she directly experienced this speaking—perhaps the words just rolled out.] She simultaneously innerly saw the dog's face (just the face, with nothing surrounding it) with its smiley expression.
• After the interview [1:00:49]: More conversation about separating directly apoprehended experience from all else, including an exercise for the reader.

In general—sampling day 4: All DES interviews are some combination of iterative training (so that future sampling days can be more skillful) and description of experience. The aim of the fourth sampling interview is a combination of experience description and iterative training.

Kerry's samples:

• Sample 4.1 [2:29]: [Kerry was walking and reading on her phone an email that she had previously written, trying to ensure that the email made sense.] She was reading aloud "working to embed the form" (this was perhaps [RTH thought the interview was not adequate] mostly a hearing those words.
• Sample 4.2 [10:40]: [Kerry is standing on the right side of a road,] seeing the road in front of her (going off at an angle to the right). She sees two cars (typical traffic) coming toward her—[Kerry is standing on the right side of a road,] seeing the road in front of her (going off at an angle to the right). She sees two cars (typical traffic) coming toward her—she has imaginarily superimposed the Subaru moving along the road behind the Jeep.] (She sees the Subaru as being there, but she also understands that it is not there. That is, Kerry intrinsically apprehends the Jeep, road, and surroundings as being real and the Subaru as being imagined.) [The seen Subaru is the Subaru that she purchased two days ago.]
       Simultaneously Kerry was asking in her own inner voice, "would it be an issue to go higher?"
• Sample 4.3 31:48]: [Kerry is playing a song she doesn't know and listening to the lyrics of the chorus. The lyric is "meet me down at the Blue Café," but she does not hear that distinctly.] She is trying to hear-the-words/figure-out-what-the-words-are; that is, she is somehow innerly voicing-mouthing-shadowing-predicting along with the song. [She may also have been some attending to the style or genre of the music.]
       Simultaneously (40%) Kerry is drawn to the twinkly dark green-ness of the middle of a tree.
• Sample 4.4 [45:25]: [Kerry was looking at programming code on her computer screen.] She was noticing the blue, red, and yellow colors (of the elements of the code).
• Sample 4.5 [54:02]: [Kerry was talking to her sister about a potential hike, and her sister was mentioning how many bugs there would be there.] Kerry was innerly seeing the scene of the hike—seeing overgrown grass in the foreground; to the left was a lake; to the right were tents; behind were rocky mountains with wet snow. [The overgrown grass was associated with the source of bugs.]
       Kerry was also innerly speaking in a cheery, positive tone "We could wear bug nets!" (as if she were rehearsing convincing friends to join this hike).
• After the interview [1:02:50]: More about sample 4.2 and 4.4.

In general—sampling day 5: All DES interviews are some combination of iterative training (so that future sampling days can be more skillful) and description of experience. The aim of the fifth sampling interview is a combination of experience description and iterative training.

Kerry's samples:

• Sample 5.1 [0:12]: [Kerry's sister had said something about yogurt. Perhaps Kerry was saying aloud "yoghurt?" but perhaps it was her brother who was actually saying that—both were questioning something about yogurt. Kerry may have been trying to figure out what her sister was asking.] Kerry innerly sees a tub of Fage Greek Yogurt. (It was just the Yoghurt, with nothing around it, but was not seen clearly—she saw a white tub with a blue and red logo, but it was not detailed.)
• Sample 5.2 [9:38]: [Kerry was with her brother and mom, and] was saying the word "caramel" about her mom's hair color]. She said it in sync with her brother, playfully chiming along.
       She also innerly saw caramel colored hair, up close and detailed, seeing the caramel color and the texture individual strands of the front-side of a swath of hair. She also saw some bit of the chair and some other stuff that might be found in a salon but disproportionately sized.
• Sample 5.3 [24:28]: [Kerry's friend had previously asked for branding advice and Kerry had sent a voice memo. Before the beep she was recalling what she said in that voice memo.] Kerry was hearing herself say "Coke is an established brand." This experience may have been of hearing, not speaking (although it did not sound like a recording, but rather like how her voice typically sounds, with the same pitch and cadence) [RTH thinks we didn't do a good job of distinguishing between inner hearing and inner speaking in this sample.]
• Sample 5.4 [33:20]: [Kerry was reading a book.] She was reading the words "history is watching," [perhaps] hearing them spoken by a young male British voice [there is reason for skepticism if she experienced this.] She innerly saw a cozy living room; closest was a blow-up mattress on a red patterned carpet; more distant she saw dark wood walls, old leather couches, a TV, and pictures on the walls (they had frames, but the pictures themselves weren't distinct). [The book mentioned a living room with a blow-up mattress, but everything else was Kerry's invention.]
• Sample 5.5 [47:15]: [Kerry was watching a video on her phone of Hulk Hogan at a Trump Rally. He had ripped off his shirt to reveal a Trump / Vance 2024 shirt.] Kerry was innerly saying "this is fucked" in an exasperated tone.
       Kerry was also (perhaps simultaneously or perhaps very slightly after "this is fucked") innerly seeing a serious but facetious face (of the podcaster Tommy Veitor) wearing a red "0% liberal" hat. [The hat message was ironic, which Kerry found funny.]
• Sample 5.6 [1:05:21]: [Kerry was scrolling on Instagram] She was watching a video where a woman was twisting off the cap to a bottle of laundry detergent (it was not yet clear what the point of the video was). [The video had an audio track, but Kerry was not hearing it, or at least not grasping it.]

In general—sampling day 6: All DES interviews are some combination of iterative training (so that future sampling days can be more skillful) and description of experience. The aim of the sixth sampling interview is a combination of experience description and iterative training.

Kerry's samples:

• Sample 6.1 [0:12]: [I'm on the phone talking to a client. I'm looking at my sister's profile picture on the Venmo app on my phone.] I'm seeing the turquoise blue, baby pink, black, and white (and perhaps less so the swirling pattern of the colors and the shape) [of her hat].
• Sample 6.2 [11:03]: [I'm still talking to my client on the phone]. I'm holding and looking at a singular strand of my hair, which is lighter than the rest (implying that it's a dead split end. I'm also seeing the frizzier texture, but my experience here is more about the color).
• Sample 6.3 [16:55]: [I'm blow-drying my hair] and prospectively recalling* being at my birthday party, where I am saying** to my assembled friends "30 is not so bad, it's 29 that sucked!" (in my slightly animated story-telling voice style). I see (most centrally) the detailed intricate cream, blue, and orange rug. On a couch are three friends—Sam with a hat, Nora with a gold chain, and Greta in workout clothes. There's another person (or people) off to the side (or both sides) but they're indistinct, and a coffee table with drinks on it in front. (I see this from my perspective. It's unclear if it's an immersive scene or smaller and overlaid on the real world.***)
        *This experience is apprehended as if it were a recollection of an event that had already taken place, even though the event hasn't yet occurred.
       ** This experience doesn't fit easily into the typical speaking/hearing dichotomy. She is experiencing herself as saying "30 is not so bad, it's 29 that sucked!" The Kerry who is imagined is imagined as speaking; the Kerry who is doing the imagining does not experience herself as speaking, but as (probably) hearing [the experience might be more of recognizing than hearing—the interview was not adequate in this distinction].
       *** It's unclear how much Kerry experienced the physical world around her. At first, she reported 40% the birthday-party seeing, with the rest of her experience being of the real world. But we didn't confidently understand what she meant by 40%. Perhaps she meant that the seeing involved only a portion of her entire inner visual field, but perhaps that is metaphorical.
• Sample 6.4 [38:55]: [I'm using the design software Adobe Illustrator; I'm singing along to music but that is not experienced. I'm trying to change some text, but it's not changing.] I realize / think something like, oh it's an object, I need a text box. (This realization is without words.) [Text in Illustrator can be formatted as a textbox or as an object. If it's an object, you're not able to edit to change the text. For object, individual letters are outlined.]
• Sample 6.5 [45:30]: I'm talking to my housemate saying "30 is the best". [She knew I was nervous about turning 30. I'm somewhat convincing her and myself that I do feel good about it. But I genuinely do.]
       I'm seeing the archway into the living room, with its exposed piece of knotty, yellow-y brown natural wood. [The interview did not discriminate the degree to which the knotty / yellow-y was experientially prominent, rather than merely being a feature of the wood. I might see my housemate off to the left, but less prominently.]
• Sample 6.6 [56:30]: [I was sitting on my front stoop talking to my friend Amy on the phone. I was saying out loud "did I send you a voice mail?" but those words were more rolling out than directly experienced. I was trying to recall what I had already said.] I innerly see our text message conversation, its grey and blue message bubbles. (The bubbles are seen clearly, but the text is seen only blurrily.) (Actively trying to remember is part of my experience.)

In general—sampling day 7: All DES interviews are some combination of iterative training (so that future sampling days can be more skillful) and description of experience. The aim of the seventh sampling interview is a combination of experience description and iterative training.

Kerry's samples:

• Sample 7.1 [0:02]: [Kerry was at her computer doing a design project that was taking a lot of revisions. She was making a restaurant menu template that the client could later edit.] Kerry was innerly speaking in a professional tone, "I would like to do a handover call with whoever will be making design edits in the future."
       She simultaneously was innerly seeing two Zoom boxes; their edges and name label boxes are clear, but the contents of the boxes (which are understood to contain the clients Doug and Bevan) are not seen distinctly. She saw the boxes over the left side of her actual real-life computer screen [they do not obscure the screen, even though they appear to be above the screen].
• Sample 7.2 [18:35]: [I'm looking at a chart of paper sizes (A3, A4, A5) and] reading "A5: 5.83 inches by 8.27 inches." I'm innerly speaking "A5: 5.83 inches by 8.27 inches" in my own voice, somewhat monotone. I'm also seeing the line on the chart.
• Sample 7.3 [24:37]: [Kerry was editing the restaurant menu layout which had taken a lot of revisions. She was now looking at revisions from the chef.] She was seeing a chunk of text which was not too large [in realizing that the chef had added some dishes to the "Mains" section of the menu, but the amount of text wasn't large enough that Kerry would have to change the design layout]. She was innerly saying "ok, not that bad" (possibly in a relieved way).
• Sample 7.4 [36:56]: [Earlier at lunch, my housemate had told me about a Jill Stein election meme. Now I am at my computer and trying to remember the media company that had created the meme.] I innerly said "Cheek," realizing what it was. This was my voice, more like speaking than hearing. [My eyeballs were aimed at the computer, without experiencing it.]
• Sample 7.5 [40:23]: [I was listening to the Bo Burnham song White Woman's Instagram] I was singing along to the lyric "golden retriever in a flower crown" (either innerly or softly aloud). I innerly saw a golden retriever with a flower crown. I'm mostly seeing his smiling face, which is clear and detailed (with leathery lips and twinkling eyes). He's wearing plastic crown of obviously fake red, green, yellow, and blue flowers. (The dog and crown are seen somewhat smaller than they would be in real life.) [The crown is one I had frequently worn as a child, but that realization was not present at the moment of the beep.]
• Sample 7.6 [54:39]: [Kerry is still editing the restaurant menu.] She's innerly speaking "we've maxed out our edits on this one." (This is something that might be said but is not in rehearsal for what to say to the client. That is, later, she may rehearse the speaking to client, but now it is not directed at anyone in particular).

Kerry's samples:

• Sample 8.1 [0:43]: [I am walking back from a run, looking at my reflection in a car window.] I'm seeing the greasy-messy-chaos of my (wind-blown) hair.
       Less prominently, I'm also innerly seeing my shower tub (looking down at it, baby pink porcelain tub, faucet, white curtain, white and teal tiles) [realizing I should take a shower].
• Sample 8.2 [10:14]: [I'm coming back from a run, wheeling my bike into the garage. I'm exerting, angling and pushing it over a doorway bump. I'm also listening a podcast ("Shameless Media").] Mostly (90%) I experience my hands pushing/trying not to jam my hands on the doorframe and the coldness of the handlebars. Less present (10%) I innerly see the two podcasters in a "green room" [they had described doing the podcast from the green room prior to an appearance]. I see them from the shoulder up, wearing recording headphones, and behind them are maroon painted walls and mirrors rimmed with lightbulbs of the green room. [it's more elements of the green room rather than a fully realized scene.]
• Sample 8.3 [32:16]: [I'm replaying in my head a phone call last night to my friend Nora. I had called her twice in a row and I was trying to discern whether it was annoying. I'm replaying only my side of the conversation.] I'm innerly hearing myself say "you were the last person I spoke to about it and I just had to tell someone". (Kerry was confident that it's hearing not speaking. And in my normal voice.) (It was a conversation, but I am hearing only my side of the conversation.) [There was nothing visual about the replay.]
• Sample 8.4 [41:36]: [I was still designing the restaurant menu in Canva. I had previously made some edits in red indicating that the clients needed to change this text. It is now two days before the restaurant opening, and the fact that the text was still red indicates that the edits had not been made.]
       (I was seeing the block—something like a horizontal region across the page—of the menu,) focusing particularly on the red=unchanged text portion and negatively reacting, which included the physical sensation of my stomach sinking. (The negative reaction was not articulated or differentiated but may have been something like Oh, no! Still there! Did I do something wrong here?)
       I was maybe innerly sing-songy speaking "PT Bar Menu" in the background.
• Sample 8.5 [57:36]: [I was sending an email to myself, typing "print"] and seeing "print" appear in the email body, and above it seeing the subject line (which also said "Print"). I was also innerly speaking "print" (in my monotone voice).
• Sample 8.6 [1:01:51]: [I was in Staples to print something. I had asked store guy #1 a complicated printer question he didn't know the answer to. He had gestured to store guy #2 saying "this guy will help you." Guy #2 was just walking past, ignoring him, not wanting to be bothered.] I was looking at guy #2's face, especially his eyes which had a don't-fuck-with-me glare.
       I also felt what I could retrospectively verbalize as ooeuh and beyond that articulate as I don't want to deal with this guy, it's gross that he treats his coworker that way (but none of this was clearly separated out, articulated, bodily, or verbal.)
• After the interview [1:15:04]: More about samples 8.1 and 8.4, including exercises for the reader.

Kerry's samples:

• Sample 9.1 [0:21]: [Kerry was in her kitchen talking to her housemates about dating on the app Hinge. Gracie had complained that men want a relationship starting with the first date.] Kerry was laughingly, surprisedly saying out loud "that's not my experience".
• Sample 9.2 [10:11]: [Kerry was browsing her Hinge with her housemates. She was looking at one guy's profile information, which said he was from Lake Geneva].
       She was wonderingly staring at the text that said Lake Geneva (she wasn't noticing any particular thing about font or whatever, but she was looking intently as if this would bring about an answer to where the lake is). [We also discussed the possibility that wondering was separate, like where is that, is it foreign? Either way it was certainly without clear words or sounds. We didn't reach a firm conclusion.]
• Sample 9.3 [27:13]: [Kerry is doing dishes while listening to a podcast. The hosts were talking about how products we buy don't last as long anymore. Host #1 had joked that Host #2 had used the same refrigerator for 30 years. For context, host #2 lives in the same house that the celebrity Vanessa Hudgens used to live in.]
       Kerry is listening to the podcast, with host #1 saying "Vanessa Hudgens got good use out of that fridge."
       Mostly, Kerry is innerly seeing her old refrigerator from her childhood. It's white, a bit beat up, long silver handles, some rust, and with a textured pattern on the white panels. She sees it in front of her. She sees just the fridge, not a whole scene. Although there were no borders around it, she's seeing only the fridge. This seeing is small; that is, the seeing itself occupies a smaller portion (roughly the visual size of the spatula she is holding) of what Kerry understands as her entire inner field of view.

Sample 9.4 [40:58]: [Kerry was reading on her phone the website of the Ski resort Eldora, which described a hut called Arestua. That was somewhat surprising to Kerry—she didn't know that Eldora had any huts.] She was experientially-seeing and reading the section title "Jenny Creek / Arestua Hut Access." She innerly spoke those words (without the slash).      In trying to place where a hut might be, Kerry innerly saw a yurt hut on the Eldora mountainside [this was a mashing up of a yurt she had seen in Wyoming and the Eldora (Colorado) mountainside], looking down on the yurt (seen in detail: tan canvas, wooden slats, window, chimney) from a hilltop. This seeing is behind-and-to-the-right of her head, seeing forward into the yurt-scene that is still behind-and-to-the-right of her.

• After the interview [1:06:41]: More about samples 9.3 and 9.4, including exercises for the reader.

Kerry's samples:

• What is a "green meeting"? [0:50]
• How do we know DES is accurate? [2:29]
• Are there personality characteristics related to inner experience characteristics? [7:01]
• ADHD? [12:47]
• Am I a freak? [16:50]
• Anxiety and the doing of [19:01]
• Can you train inner experience? [26:39]
• The story of Fran (no figure/ground)[29:18]
• DES changes people [45:39]
• People's inner experience is very different [49:53]
• How to tell the story of DES? [52:38]
• What surprised you? [1:04:47]
• Childhood memories [1:08:56]
• Learning to do DES [1:15:50]
• Russ's story [1:19:34]
• DES publicity [1:26:33]
• DES with pop culture celebrities? [1:31:41]
• About Russ's characteristics [1:36:51]
• We should have a green meeting [1:43:44]

Together, they reviewed each sample (starting from the end and working backwards) and compared their individual impressions of it; together they generated a brief (typically 10-ish words) "caption" that captured the important aspect(s) of the phenomena present in that sample as each investigator understood it—that is, the caption could include differing opinions, if the several investigators had differing impressions. (Typically, captions are written in green font—hence the name green meeting). This idiographic sample review (as is typical in DES) spanned 4 or 5 hours of discussion spread across two meetings.
      The green meeting is long, extending over two days. We transcribed only the first half of first day and the last half of the second day. You can watch and listen to the video of the entire meeting.

Because the meeting is long, we transcribed only the second half of it. You can watch and listen to the video of the entire meeting.

     Like the contemporaneous sample descriptions and the idiographic review before it, the goal of the independent informal characterization was for each investigator to encapsulate what each, as an individual, took to be the notable phenomena of Kerry's sampled experience—the goal was not to strive for consensus. Functionally, this meant that one investigator's description could be prose paragraphs; another investigator's characterization could be a list of common or notable phenomena; and so on.
     After all investigators completed their own informal characterization, an idiographic salient characteristics column was appended to the comparison document—this would contain all the characteristics that the investigators (individually or collectively) might be useful in characterizing Kerry's idiographic inner experience.

     An idiographic Microsoft Excel sheet was created that listed all Kerry's salient characteristics/phenomena (the entries in the appended column described in the previous step) (as columns) and each of Kerry's sample descriptions (as rows). Each investigator then independently rated each sample on each idiographic characteristic: 1 = present, 0.5 = possibly present / not sure, and left the cell blank = not present. This document served as the starting point of the Rectification Meeting.
      During that meeting, we considered each sample, focusing primarily on those samples/phenomenon where investigators' ratings had disagreed, with the aim of continuing the refinement of phenomena. Sometimes this resulted in the alteration/refinement of a description of the phenomenon. Sometimes this resulted in an individual investigator coming to recognize that they had a unique and possibly presuppositional understanding of the phenomenon, which they worked to change. Sometimes this resulted in an individual investigator realizing that they had made a mistake in the rating process. Sometimes this resulted in an individual investigator coming to alter their own understanding of how the salient phenomenon should be applied. And so on.
     Notably, this process was not about deriving counts or ratings of phenomena, even though numerical ratings are used. It was instead centrally focused on refining each investigator's grasp and understanding of the phenomena.

     Recall that Mel (Part X) had recruited her friend Kerry (Part XI) because Kerry believed herself to be a constant (or nearly constant) inner speaker, and therefore had very different experience from Mel herself—DES had shown Mel's own inner experience to be very quiet.
     Now Mel and Kerry get to talk with each other, compare their inner experience, share what impact their DES participation had had on them, and ask Russ whatever questions they had about their DES and their participation.
     From Russ's point of view, the same rule applied to him now as had applied to Mel and to Kerry during their participation: he could decline to answer any question for whatever reason, but if he answered a question, he should commit himself to being forthright and as complete as the questioner desired.